It's funny how no one looks at the most obvious. You write "The anti-vaccine industry itself has revenues around US$36 million"... Let me ask you this: What are the revenues of the VACCINE industry itself?
Now let me ask you something else: do you FULLY trust the pharmaceutical industry?
And for one who got caught, how many others are getting away with crap like that?
I'm not into conspiracy theories, and I don't deny the reality of COVID, but I do question the credibility of the vaccines. It usually takes years to develop and test one. So excuse me if I have a hard time believing these three are 'safe'. Says who? The pharmaceutical industry? See above.
The feeling I get, from the beginning, is that things have been blown out of proportions. Is COVID dangerous? Of course. Does it have a higher mortality rate than the flu? Yes. Does that mean we should rush rush rush into getting *everyone* vaccinated without thinking? I don't think so.
If folks are comfortable getting vaccinated, than that's fine. But I'm getting tired of seeing people getting mocked, ridiculed, or called out for not wanting the vaccine.
Conservative nutjobs haven't helped with their conspiracy theories, I'll give you that much. But there's more to it than what those crazies have to say.
When things are rushed the way they are, I can't help but wonder why? who is this really benefitting? Follow the money.
And you know who it points back to? The pharmaceutical industry.
Tell me they're not making more money out of this than they ever had, and that they won't make loads more by forcing everyone to get the vaccine.
As all sane people know, they are not "forcing" anyone to get the vaccine. That is a misleading statement, at best. But our constitution grants NO ONE a "right" to expose others to a deadly disease, that's why government work places and private places of employment and education, can legally require all employees to be vaccinated as a condition of employment. Ditto for attending other public and private venues, like a concert for example.
You'll see, when the Supreme Court finally rules on this, why our court rulings have overwhelmingly stated that public health overrides "personal freedoms". And by the way, paharaceutical companies did not suddenly develop this vaccine in a matter of months. It is documented that decades of research went into developing this particular vaccine. These type of viruses have been around a long time and have been studied a long time.
I don't have a great deal of trust in the pharmaceutical industry - there's a good reason that they are very heavily regulated and scrutinised. But I have much more confidence in the overall system, involving regulators, scientists, medical professionals and media. To me, one of the most compelling reasons that Covid-19 needs vaccines is that without vaccines, health systems can't cope with the numbers of seriously ill people caused by Covid, except by using various degrees of lockdowns, which are pretty destructive.
Not believing in crazy conspiracy theories (Bill Gates engineered the pandemic; Democrats secretly drink the blood of babies; and whatnot) doesn't necessarily mean there are NO conspiracies ever.
Remember Watergate?
There is such a thing as a middle ground. It's more about looking at things with some level of reasoning and not jumping to conclusions.
Sometimes I wonder if all those fake conspiracy theories weren't designed specifically for this purpose--to make people never believe in conspiracies at all, mock them, and look the other way, so they can get away with real ones? Now wouldn't that be the most ironic of all conspiracies? LOL. And no, it's not something I really believe, just a funny thought that came to me during the Trump era and that once in a while (like now) rears its ugly head.
And how am I "denying the realities of COVID"?
I wrote: "Is COVID dangerous? Of course. Does it have a higher mortality rate than the flu? Yes."
You also wrote: "The feeling I get, from the beginning, is that things have been blown out of proportions." It's a global pandemic. We haven't seen anything like this since the so-called Spanish influenza. Let's think, for a moment, about the families and friends of the 5 million that have died. Would they agree, do you think, that it's all been blown out of proportion?
Let me clarify: what I feel has been blown out of proportions is not the extent of the damage caused by the pandemic (and my heart grieves for all the victims, believe me), but rather the response that was given to it.
Besides, I'd argue that A LOT of those deaths (especially in the States) was due to how poorly the government handled the pandemic (with Trump denying its reality for such a long time).
If safety measures had been taken earlier, the need for a vaccine wouldn't have been so dire, and there might not have been such a need to rush through things.
And there's some evidence that Trump was doing things that benefitted the pharma industry, so from there it doesn't take much to wonder how much of this mess was created on purpose. I'm not saying it was, mind you, just that there are a lot of very troubling factors.
Thanks for your nice clarification, Jack, but I'm not sure that we are anywhere near common ground. I don't see how a response can be blown out of proportions. The response simply is. Perhaps you mean that the response is an over-reaction. But I don't agree with that either: global vaccination is a well-calibrated response to a global pandemic that kills 5 million people in less than the first two years. I agree that many of the deaths were likely contributed to by policy, mainly driven by influential people saying that it's all being blown out of proportions.
And even if I were to accept your central claim, which I don't, the fact is that because of mistakes in the past (let's say) we do need the vaccination program now. It's no good now trying to pivot and say yeah well if we'd done better we wouldn't need it. Policy makers don't have the luxury of being judged in your counterfactual world.
Finally, "so from there it doesn't take much to wonder how much of this mess was created on purpose. I'm not saying it was, mind you, just that there are a lot of very troubling factors." Are you familiar with the phrase dog-whistle, used pejoratively to describe statements by people who want to occupy a conversational space but from a distance? That's what this phrase does. It's a rhetorical device used to simultaneously claim, sell fake distance, and then reframe a claim. It's a classic conspiracy trope, along with "follow the money", "follow the breadcrumbs", and "do the research".
You may not think you're into conspiracy theories but you sure do write like someone who is.
Thank you for putting this down so cogently and clearly. I, too, just cannot understand the anti-vaxxers. I've seen horrific diseases like smallpox and polio being eradicated in my lifetime through a concerted campaign of vaccination. We did not even think twice about taking the vaccines and getting our children vaccinated. It is such a no-brainer - if there is a way to prevent falling sick, then why not take it? I cannot understand the logic of being against vaccination.
I can understand being wary of the Covid-19 vaccines, with the speed of development and the untrustworthiness of pharmaceutical companies. I was quite happy that New Zealand was slow in our vaccine rollout because it meant that we had a good knowledge of side effects. What I think happens is that the anti-vaccine movement exploits people's reasonable suspicions (and with childhood vaccination, the anxieties of new mothers) and uses those suspicions and anxieties to draw people into a place where logic gets thrown away.
I certainly agree about not putting my full trust in the Pharma companies—they are for profit, after all. But they are heavily regulated which helps...I hope. But, I am grateful a vaccine was rolled out so quickly and given emergency use authorization. I can't imagine how many more would have died without the vaccine.You are very diplomatic and patient with those who still refuse to take the vaccine...and I applaud that! I, on the other hand, am just plain angry. I am old enough to remember some of my friends, just two years older than I, who had to suffer with the after-effects of polio—before there was a vaccine. Fortunately, they lived when so many their age died.
Don't forget that a lot of those "heavy regulations" were stripped by Trump, and the pandemic began under his watch (though to be fair, I don't know if the pharma industry was concerned by those stripped regulations, but I'd be surprised if they weren't).
As for your anger, I can totally understand it, but shouldn't it be aimed at the government that did that so little so late, rather than those who refuse the vaccine?
OTOH, most of the the latter are Republicans who believed everything Trump said, so I can't blame you for being angry at *them* heh. I certainly am as well.
Excellent research and analysis of a perplexing topic.
It's funny how no one looks at the most obvious. You write "The anti-vaccine industry itself has revenues around US$36 million"... Let me ask you this: What are the revenues of the VACCINE industry itself?
Now let me ask you something else: do you FULLY trust the pharmaceutical industry?
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/12/31/792617538/a-decade-marked-by-outrage-over-drug-prices?t=1635655993417
And for one who got caught, how many others are getting away with crap like that?
I'm not into conspiracy theories, and I don't deny the reality of COVID, but I do question the credibility of the vaccines. It usually takes years to develop and test one. So excuse me if I have a hard time believing these three are 'safe'. Says who? The pharmaceutical industry? See above.
The feeling I get, from the beginning, is that things have been blown out of proportions. Is COVID dangerous? Of course. Does it have a higher mortality rate than the flu? Yes. Does that mean we should rush rush rush into getting *everyone* vaccinated without thinking? I don't think so.
If folks are comfortable getting vaccinated, than that's fine. But I'm getting tired of seeing people getting mocked, ridiculed, or called out for not wanting the vaccine.
Conservative nutjobs haven't helped with their conspiracy theories, I'll give you that much. But there's more to it than what those crazies have to say.
When things are rushed the way they are, I can't help but wonder why? who is this really benefitting? Follow the money.
And you know who it points back to? The pharmaceutical industry.
Tell me they're not making more money out of this than they ever had, and that they won't make loads more by forcing everyone to get the vaccine.
As all sane people know, they are not "forcing" anyone to get the vaccine. That is a misleading statement, at best. But our constitution grants NO ONE a "right" to expose others to a deadly disease, that's why government work places and private places of employment and education, can legally require all employees to be vaccinated as a condition of employment. Ditto for attending other public and private venues, like a concert for example.
You'll see, when the Supreme Court finally rules on this, why our court rulings have overwhelmingly stated that public health overrides "personal freedoms". And by the way, paharaceutical companies did not suddenly develop this vaccine in a matter of months. It is documented that decades of research went into developing this particular vaccine. These type of viruses have been around a long time and have been studied a long time.
I don't have a great deal of trust in the pharmaceutical industry - there's a good reason that they are very heavily regulated and scrutinised. But I have much more confidence in the overall system, involving regulators, scientists, medical professionals and media. To me, one of the most compelling reasons that Covid-19 needs vaccines is that without vaccines, health systems can't cope with the numbers of seriously ill people caused by Covid, except by using various degrees of lockdowns, which are pretty destructive.
Jack - a careful read of your note shows that you are indeed into at least one conspiracy theory, and you are indeed denying the realities of COVID.
Not believing in crazy conspiracy theories (Bill Gates engineered the pandemic; Democrats secretly drink the blood of babies; and whatnot) doesn't necessarily mean there are NO conspiracies ever.
Remember Watergate?
There is such a thing as a middle ground. It's more about looking at things with some level of reasoning and not jumping to conclusions.
Sometimes I wonder if all those fake conspiracy theories weren't designed specifically for this purpose--to make people never believe in conspiracies at all, mock them, and look the other way, so they can get away with real ones? Now wouldn't that be the most ironic of all conspiracies? LOL. And no, it's not something I really believe, just a funny thought that came to me during the Trump era and that once in a while (like now) rears its ugly head.
And how am I "denying the realities of COVID"?
I wrote: "Is COVID dangerous? Of course. Does it have a higher mortality rate than the flu? Yes."
How is that a denial?
You also wrote: "The feeling I get, from the beginning, is that things have been blown out of proportions." It's a global pandemic. We haven't seen anything like this since the so-called Spanish influenza. Let's think, for a moment, about the families and friends of the 5 million that have died. Would they agree, do you think, that it's all been blown out of proportion?
Let me clarify: what I feel has been blown out of proportions is not the extent of the damage caused by the pandemic (and my heart grieves for all the victims, believe me), but rather the response that was given to it.
Besides, I'd argue that A LOT of those deaths (especially in the States) was due to how poorly the government handled the pandemic (with Trump denying its reality for such a long time).
If safety measures had been taken earlier, the need for a vaccine wouldn't have been so dire, and there might not have been such a need to rush through things.
And there's some evidence that Trump was doing things that benefitted the pharma industry, so from there it doesn't take much to wonder how much of this mess was created on purpose. I'm not saying it was, mind you, just that there are a lot of very troubling factors.
Thanks for your nice clarification, Jack, but I'm not sure that we are anywhere near common ground. I don't see how a response can be blown out of proportions. The response simply is. Perhaps you mean that the response is an over-reaction. But I don't agree with that either: global vaccination is a well-calibrated response to a global pandemic that kills 5 million people in less than the first two years. I agree that many of the deaths were likely contributed to by policy, mainly driven by influential people saying that it's all being blown out of proportions.
And even if I were to accept your central claim, which I don't, the fact is that because of mistakes in the past (let's say) we do need the vaccination program now. It's no good now trying to pivot and say yeah well if we'd done better we wouldn't need it. Policy makers don't have the luxury of being judged in your counterfactual world.
Finally, "so from there it doesn't take much to wonder how much of this mess was created on purpose. I'm not saying it was, mind you, just that there are a lot of very troubling factors." Are you familiar with the phrase dog-whistle, used pejoratively to describe statements by people who want to occupy a conversational space but from a distance? That's what this phrase does. It's a rhetorical device used to simultaneously claim, sell fake distance, and then reframe a claim. It's a classic conspiracy trope, along with "follow the money", "follow the breadcrumbs", and "do the research".
You may not think you're into conspiracy theories but you sure do write like someone who is.
Thank you for putting this down so cogently and clearly. I, too, just cannot understand the anti-vaxxers. I've seen horrific diseases like smallpox and polio being eradicated in my lifetime through a concerted campaign of vaccination. We did not even think twice about taking the vaccines and getting our children vaccinated. It is such a no-brainer - if there is a way to prevent falling sick, then why not take it? I cannot understand the logic of being against vaccination.
There is no logic...
I can understand being wary of the Covid-19 vaccines, with the speed of development and the untrustworthiness of pharmaceutical companies. I was quite happy that New Zealand was slow in our vaccine rollout because it meant that we had a good knowledge of side effects. What I think happens is that the anti-vaccine movement exploits people's reasonable suspicions (and with childhood vaccination, the anxieties of new mothers) and uses those suspicions and anxieties to draw people into a place where logic gets thrown away.
I certainly agree about not putting my full trust in the Pharma companies—they are for profit, after all. But they are heavily regulated which helps...I hope. But, I am grateful a vaccine was rolled out so quickly and given emergency use authorization. I can't imagine how many more would have died without the vaccine.You are very diplomatic and patient with those who still refuse to take the vaccine...and I applaud that! I, on the other hand, am just plain angry. I am old enough to remember some of my friends, just two years older than I, who had to suffer with the after-effects of polio—before there was a vaccine. Fortunately, they lived when so many their age died.
Don't forget that a lot of those "heavy regulations" were stripped by Trump, and the pandemic began under his watch (though to be fair, I don't know if the pharma industry was concerned by those stripped regulations, but I'd be surprised if they weren't).
As for your anger, I can totally understand it, but shouldn't it be aimed at the government that did that so little so late, rather than those who refuse the vaccine?
OTOH, most of the the latter are Republicans who believed everything Trump said, so I can't blame you for being angry at *them* heh. I certainly am as well.
A well-written and balanced overview. I've lost friends to disinformation. Social media has a lot to answer for.